User talk:Lady Lostris

Welcome!
Hey there! We're excited to have Heiress of the Nile Wiki as part of the Wikia community! There's still a lot to do, so here are some helpful tips and links to get your wiki going:


 * Not sure where to begin? Stop by Founder & Admin Central and check out the Blog for tips on how to jump start your wiki and make it grow!
 * Visit Community Central to make friends via chat, learn about new features and get updated on Wikia news and upcoming features on the Staff Blog.
 * Take a look at our webinar series -- where you can sign up to interact with Wikia staff, as well as watch past sessions
 * Be sure to check out Wiki Features to see what features you can enable on your wiki!
 * Explore our forums on Founder and Admin Central to see what other wiki admins are asking.
 * Lastly, visit our Help Pages to answer any specific question you may have.

All of the above links are a great place to start exploring Wikia. If you get stuck or have a question you can't find the answer to -- please contact us here. But most importantly, have fun! :)

Happy editing! -- Dopp

How is it that a loving fan of HotN finds you ever so quick LL? :) Keep up the good work!

Count the stars - Shao   23:36, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

In dutch.
TSK kunt u Lady Lostris, Uw hoofdstuk drie voor erfgename van de Nijl was totaal willekeurig, met veel verwijzingen naar ...... serieus? Ik wijs u niet onder het hoofdstuk teleurgesteld mij, maar ik denk dat ik zal leven. Oh en wat is er met kleine hoeveelheid Lostris?

eerlijk-

Arcanus

No I didn't call you a cunt google translater said it.

Count the stars - Shao   00:09, April 22, 2012 (UTC)

Read this with a Opened Mind
I've chosen to contact you because I think you are by far the best admin on the Avatar Wiki right now. I'm really sorry for telling someone to vandalize your wiki. I was angry because of my block. I was blinded with rage. I hope you can forgive me for that, and read this message with an opened mind instead of a closed one. I was on irc today, trying to lift my indefinite block from off my shoulders. I was unsuccessful. I admit, I let my anger get the better of me and I referred to Thailog as a biased admin, but only because he had no intention of unblocking me. All him and the other admins did was give me sarcastic answers and threatened me by saying they are going to ban me from IRC. I thought the wiki would welcome me back with open arms, but that is a big lie. Once you are blocked indefinitely, your viewed as a troll and a vandal forever. I know I've said this many times, and I may sound like a troll, but I have to say it. Admins are to powerful, and some of them abuse their powers and block people out of anger. An indefinite block is a penalty that is too harsh to give out. Especially if you don't even give them a chance to protest it by commenting on their talk page. I've been laying low for awhile, and people still don't consider unblocking me. Does that not sound wrong to you at all. Don't even get me started with IRC. If you disagree with an admin their, you have no chance. That is by far the evil twin of the Avatar Wiki, and soon the Avatar Wiki is going to turn into that nightmare. This wiki is going to turn into what is was before. A place completely controlled by admins. I haven't vandalized the Avatar wiki for weeks and I'm still not good enough for a harsh block to be lifted of my shoulders. It is all coming to me now. Once you guys blocked me you wanted me gone forever. I get it now. I'm going to say this again, the Avatar wiki is biased and some of it's admins are oppressors. Some of you guys are bullies, especially on the IRC. This wiki is sad and out of balance. I only messaged this stuff to you because I think that you have a more opened mind than any other person on the wiki. Just please open your eyes a little bit. Thanks for taking the time to read this message even if you don't agree with it.Omar067 05:01, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * First of all, I am not mad at you, I never was. Irritated that you seemingly refused to listen and I was a annoyed by the fact that you threw "admins are always right" in my face when that is something I've been trying to get out of the minds of people the moment I became active on the AW. I didn't understand why you ordered someone to vandalize this wiki -I know it wasn't you- and that act really came over as petty and low back kicking. But as I said, that irritated me then when it happened, that's all in the past for me now. I'm not a person to easily anger, nor am I someone who holds a grudge for things. So don't worry about that, I'm not holding it against you.


 * To be honest, I do get you, but I don't approve of the way you handles things. Power-hungry admins are indeed a problem, that is true, but those really are the minority of them. Most are just users who are given the extra right to do things, to help keep the wiki an organized place. Whether you like it or not, admins are just needed. They need those extra rights that they have been given, as, without them, it would be impossible to run a smooth wiki. You need to understand thay your fight for equality can never target the rights of the admins as those will never change. They're the same on every wiki, and they will likely stay like that. An admin as such isn't bad, it are some users behind the title that are power-hungry. However, I also must admit, that the majority of the admins on the Avatar Wiki is very mellow. Could you please point out what you don't like about the current admins and what they have done wrong in your eyes?
 * Personally, I don't like to block people, and if I can, I try to avoid it. However, sometimes it is just necessary for the betterment of the wiki to block a vandal, so everyone can get back to editing constructively instead of being occupied with cleaning up after a user. The more times someone has been blocked, the more stern and longer the block becomes, and that is how you got blocked indefinitely. I'm not a fan of that either. To be honest, I would only have blocked you for a month then as that was the next step in the timeline of block lengths. However, I do want to point out that you were not blocked because the admins were angry at you. Everyone, admin, rollback, and regular users were just fed up with trying to reason with you and turning in circles in every conversation they held with you. That is more the reason you were blocked: previous blocks + you didn't seem to have learned anything from being blocked as you returned to vandalism the moment you returned. I know, you will say that you didn't vandalized again after your third block, but in all honestly, do you really believe that? You didn't vandalized according to the letter of policy as it is indeed not stated that you can't make a fanon about people you hate etc, but you must have know that it was not allowed either. You played on the border of allowed and infringing policy and you know it. That is what was so annoying to everyone else. They tried to reason with you, and you shot everyone down over and over again.


 * The way I see it, you do have some points about equality etc, but you have a wrong way of dealing with it -which you already know I think ^^. Vandalizing is never the answer, as that doesn't only hurt the people you are targeting, but that also affect everyone that has ever constructively edited a page. As someone who mainly focuses on edits and rewrites, it is extremely annoying to see someone attack the work you've spend a lot of time on. Another thing, if you want to get something done, don't be a wall. I mean by that, to change, compromise is always necessary. I asked you what you wanted to change and some of your goals were just practically not feasible. Engage in constructive talks with everyone instead of being a wall and keep repeating your demands over and over again. Everything, from wiki policy to real world governments, every change needs a compromise. Some things can change, but no one is willing to change under the force of a threat. You saying that something needs to be done or you will vandalize, triggers the counter reaction that the other party isn't even interested anymore in what you have to say -which is logical, but also a shame, as there are indeed some things that need to be said.


 * Btw, you don't sound like a troll to me and people really need to stop addressing everyone as a troll the moment they post something they don't agree with or repeat the same things a few times. However, try seeing things from the other point of view. Everyone has seen your actions and your threats, and every time you came back from a block period, you started vandalizing again. Same in IRC, you asked to be unblocked, but when your request was denied, you immediately threatened to resort to vandalism once again. Those threats are exactly what make people lose all respect for you and give you zero-credibility in their eyes, and as such, people can't trust you anymore not to start vandalizing again. For me, I don't see you as the eternal vandal -as I have said before. Don't pay attention to people like H-Man. He indeed is the embodiment of what you fight against and if it is any consolation, I don't think there is anyone that really likes him or sides with him as he says something. He is too harsh in his opinions about blocking and vandalism, so please don't view anyone by his standards, as hardly anyone follows them.


 * That also something I'd like to talk to you about: "the admin is always right" and "Don't even get me started with IRC. If you disagree with an admin their, you have no chance." That is not true. However, you do need to understand where everyone is coming from: Thailog for example has tried countless times before to reason with you and you brushed him off each time. You know how aggravating it is for an admin to always read such statements, knowing that those are the exact things you've been trying to change? There maybe are admins you could use that statement against, but Thailog really isn't one of them. The IRC really isn't controlled by the admins, in fact, the admins are often not even there, or at least not actively.


 * When I talked to you on your talk page, that's another point you need to mellow a bit in if you want to constructively change something. The Avatar Wiki is not "us against them"; it is not "the regular users against the admins (and rollbacks)", but you insist on pushing that division on everyone. You made it clear that people are either with you, or with the admins, there is no gray zone. Now truth be told, there is a gray zone, and you need to come into it, as that is where the majority of the people are, me and most other admins included. I don't agree with every admin-action either, and if I don't agree, I try to talk that over sensibly. When an edit of mine gets undone and I don't think it was rightfully undone, I undo it again, and if it gets undone again, I take it to that person's talk page and leave the edit as it is for that time. In an edit war, the one that changes the page is always the one to be viewed as the instigator of the edit war, as s/he is the one to change the status quo, that's why you were the one who always received the warnings etc, not the one who undid your edits, even though they might have been incorrect.


 * I thank you btw for contacting me here as I've been willing to talk to you for a while now. I don't like the situation at all. I don't like how you have been pushed out by everyone, but on the other hand, I don't like either how you have treated everyone as well. Whenever someone reached out to you, you spat in their hands sort of speak, and in return, they kicked you back. To be clear, neither of the actions are correct, I just hope that you can see why people reacted the way they did and why a lot of them are still not willing to see you return. Now, I can't just decide on my own to unblock you, I don't have that kind of authority (I can with my rights, but I can't just overrule other decisions, as that wouldn't be right either.) However, I will say this: I don't support perma-blocks either and I would be willing to support your return. However, some serious things need to change for that. You need to truly prove that you are done vandalizing the wiki and causing trouble. You are free to try making changes, but do so politely and via the designated channels, namely constructive conversation in the War Room and on talk pages etc. Proof that you are trying to be a constructive member again and seize your "us against them, down with the admins, they're oppressing us" statements. As an admin, someone who has done a lot for the wiki by editing etc, those statements are really a slap in the face. And I know that I am not the only one who receives those statements like that. Be more constructive, try to meet people half way instead of demanding they come groveling to you, and I can see your block being lifted sometime. But most of all, be patient. This will not change over night, too much has happened for that, I hope you can understand that as well. You are always free to contact me again about anything as I truly hope we can all work this out. I just hope that your vandal-streaks and those of the "Wikequalists" are done. 08:01, May 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Admins like Thailog and Vulmen are biased. They use insults when they are trying to discipline a user.

"That's where his logic falls flat. What Omar can't get through his thick head, is that admins are not role models nor do they have to live up to anyone's high standards, especially not those of a troll like him. If he comes here with that ridiculous ultimatum, taken from a mediocre plot of a bad direct-to-dvd movie, then he must expect to be mocked around." by Thailog.{C}Vulmen has used insults to discipline me as well, and you wonder why I go on a vandalism spree, but this is what I don't get. Every time people insult me and I attack them back, why am I the only one getting consequences? That sounds like the personal attack policy is in someones favor. I do admit that I threatened to vandalize the wiki, but it was only after I was given a sarcastic answer. Thialog replied to my request with a simple "Ok." Later he told me that he meant no, and he was only saying that so I could shut up about being blocked. Vulmen said there was nothing to consider about being unblocked. What else did you expect me to do besides criticize them. Those two guys are very much like H-Man Havoc to me. They're all bullies. And still to this day, I don't think I deserved to be blocked indefinitely. I still think I was blocked because of an admin's anger. These are some of the things admins have done wrong in my eyes.--Omar067 14:11, May 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, they're not. You have to understand where they were coming from. In the beginning they were friendly, but just as in real life, if you keep kicking someone and they repeatedly ask you to stop doing that, but you ignore the warnings, they will eventually kick back. Is that right? No. Is that understandable? Yes. Just as you ask people to understand where you are coming from, you need to understand where the others are coming from as well. Like I said, people got fed up of talking to a wall and seeing their reasonings completely ignored. Thus they eventually resorted to harsh language as well. That's exactly the reason why harsh language should be avoided by everyone in a discussion as it triggers an unproductive counter reaction.
 * Thailog is right to say that admins aren't role models. Admins are users that are supposed to be knowledgeable about the wiki affairs, but that doesn't mean that they are saints. Admins are still people, and when provoked, they will react. Honestly, I don't think that you can say that Thailog and Vulmen are biased because they used insults at your address. You insulted them just as well, and as I just said, it's a mere action/reaction thing. Besides, being biased has nothing to do with using insults etc.
 * As I explained in my previous message about edit wars, the one that instigates the changes and thus adapts the status quo is the one that will be held liable if an edit war ensues. If you insult someone else, you are the provoker and thus you are the one that people will point fingers at. Does that mean the others are blameless? No. They will get a notification about any possible use of harsh language, but because their action was a reaction to your initial action, they will be more rapidly excused than the instigator. This is the same in real life. If two persons fight, the one that started it will be the one held liable and the other one will be told to know better and not do it again. So it has nothing to do with personally attacking you, as that same "procedure" would be followed regardless as to whom the instigator is.
 * Well, you accuse admins and rollbacks of refusing to listen to you, but don't you kind of do the same? By repeating over and over again what you think is wrong and that people have unjustified blocked you, you refuse to listen to them as well. You condemn them for attacking you, but you attack them as well. You reject their sarcasm and counter with threats of vandalism. Neither of those actions and reactions are fair and proportional to one another, but can't you see how you are not helping your cause any by keep trying the same method over and over again? Something is not going to change just because you screamed loud and long enough. If the admins would give in to that, we would be setting a president for everyone saying that you can do what you want and then if you nag about it long enough, all will be forgiven. You need to prove somehow that you won't go down that path again, that you won't resort to vandalism again as soon as you think someone unjustified undid your edit. No offense intended what so ever, just saying this to help, but your main issue is a lack of willingness to engage in constructive conversation. You keep saying that thing should be done a certain way, but you don't provide ways to practically get there, nor do you always practice what you preach. If someone disagrees with you or is harsh against you, your reflex shouldn't be to bite back or vandalize. Those are the situations you need to be the better person. You know, many people on the wiki see me as a friendly person who is always nice, but I am not. I'm only human and I get annoyed too. However, the difference with me and so many others is that I often don't type my annoyance and remain friendly and polite although I could be yelling at my screen in the meantime. You will never get anything done by being angry. Polite conversation and patience, those should be your allies. Prove that you are trustworthy again and that you are willing to listen to people. You will not always get things done your way and sometimes you will have to compromise for the better good. That's a lesson for real life as well.
 * An admins job is to block vandals and people who disrupt the peace of the community. Can you honestly say that you haven't done that? Even after your last block prior to the perma-ban, can you honestly say that you did not do anything to purposely aggravate some users? The users you call bullies, I call -in this situation- provoked users. You are not the innocent victim here that did nothing wrong, but by constantly ignoring your own actions and minimizing those while emphasizing the counter reactions of others, you are again provoking people as you send the message that they were the culprits and that you did nothing wrong. Can you see how that annoys people? 14:47, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * And again, just like the other admins, you ignore my evidence and go on about what I did wrong. I know I did some wrong things, but I haven't resorted to using vandalism for days. At least I can admit to doing something wrong. However, admins can't do this for some reason. The only disrespectful things I said to admins was saying how they abuse their user rights. That's not as bad as vulmen calling me stupid, and Thailog calling me troll etc. If you're going to use personal attacks and block someone because they attack you back, does that not seem wrong. That's another problem I have with admins, they are not capable of receiving consequences, but I understand what you're saying about the reaction stuff.--Omar067 15:15, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Alright. I understand, but how do you suppose I prove to somebody that I won't use vandalism if I can't even speak with them and they refuse to listen to me when I do contact them? I'm starting to think that I will have sweet talk them just so I can get unblocked. Unlike those two admins that I've talked bad about here, I will forgive them and acknowledge my own biased actions.Omar067 16:09, May 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I am not ignoring your evidence, but no offense, there isn't a lot of evidence here. It's not because an admin called you names that they are therefore abusing their rights. It's not because you didn't resort to vandalism for a few days that everything you did in the past is automatically erased. Yes, it shouldn't be held against you forever, but you can't expect everything to be forgotten at once just because you behave for a week. Just another thing to be aware off: don't generalize. Don't say "admins can't do this, admins can't do that". There are some admins that can't, but there are more that can. For example, I admit that I'm wrong all the time when I'm wrong, same with Dc, and even Thailog and Vulmen.
 * The situation got severely out of hand and as such, it will take time to settle down again. You can come to IRC and try to talk with them there. However, don't start the conversation with "unblock me", as the obvious answer will be "no". If you think that you need to sweet talk the admins to get unblocked, then you really don't understand why you have been blocked. The admin's opinion had nothing to do with it. Yes, an admin blocked you, but they did not block you out of a whim, they blocked you based on your actions. Regardless of who it was, it was based on the vandal actions and disruptive behavior you displayed, not because you are Omar and angered an admin. You need to give the admins more credit as that as they all deserve it. The admins are not as biased and petty as you think they are. Try talking to them normally on IRC and try to work it out constructively. Don't start accusing them, don't use harsh words, but try to rationally explain why you did what you did and try to suggest some practical and doable things on how you would change things to improve equality, cause believe it or not, that too is something the admins all want. 16:36, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, but still, how am I supposed to talk to them if they refuse to listen to me,and how long am I suppose to wait until they get over their anger? The entire summer? And like I said, I now acknowledge my own biased actions and I will contribute constructively if they ever consider unblocking me.--Omar067 16:42, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

First of all, you need to stop thinking that everyone is angry at you. To be blunt, no one cares enough for that. This is the internet, they don't know you, and as such, they don't care whether you come back or not. Same with me, people wouldn't care if I suddenly vanished. However, they do care that you heavily vandalized the wiki, something they put a lot of time and effort in. I can't tell you how long it will take. I can't image that any admin would refuse a private conversation with you as long as it is friendly. Besides, the admins aren't the only ones you need to convince. There is also the entire community. 16:46, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

To be blunt, why can't you take a chance and unblock me if you have the power to do it again. By the way, I do have a friend that is angry at Thailog. Well I'll try to seek out a friendly conversation with an admin, like you said. Omar067 16:52, May 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I can technically unblock you, I have the necessary rights to do that, but that decision isn't up to me as you were -like it or not- rightfully blocked according to policy. I never said that no one is angry at the admins, I'm just saying that the admins are not angry at anyone -and that is a fact as I have talked to all of them before and know them quite well as users. 16:55, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, if they were not angry, I wouldn't be talking here. But you can't blame me for thinking that way. First I find myself getting a warning, and twenthy minutes later it's turned into a block, for the same action. But telling you this meaningless. This whole thread is meaning less. It won't really get anything done. The only thing I accomplished was that I acknowledged my actions.Omar067 17:04, May 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * You really don't see that that is part of the problem? As I said before, minimizing your own actions and emphasizing the power-misuse the block brought was what ticked so many people off. You acknowledging that you were to blame for a lot of the stuff that happened does matter for a lot of people. Say that to a lot of the admins, cause as far as they're concerned, they still think that you believe you haven't done anything wrong.
 * I'll tell you what, I'm going to find out why it is that anonymous users can't be perma-banned, but registered users can. If that is not a general wikia rule, I might try to change that one as I also think that perma-banning is over the top. If that is the case, and the abolition of the perma-ban rule has gathered community consensus I would be willing to advocate lessening your block to 1 month, cause you still needed to be blocked for your actions. However, that also comes with a condition. I know you sort of are the leader of the "Wikequalists" and a lot of their actions are done on your asking. If I were to do this, I don't want to see any -and then I do mean not a single letter- of vandalism on the wiki that can somehow be traced back to you and/or the wikequalists. You agree? 17:17, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, but don't go saying, "The Wikequalists are vandalizing." when a random user comes and causes trouble. I've already told DC that I would like to speak with Vulmen whenever he gets on IRC. I plan to talk nicely. Thanks for your help. By the way, I'm not the leader of anything.Omar067 17:39, May 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's why I said "sort of" as you yourself started this conversation by saying that you were sorry that you told someone to vandalize here. You at least have some pull there. Anyway, I don't promise anything except that I will poke around to see what the other users feel about it. 19:43, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

I'll find out from other users later what you did to be blocked from IRC, but I first want to know your version of the story, so you know that I'm still "unbiased" toward any particular version. Despite your "this is personal" claims, I cannot believe that you were banned without any reason. But again, something bad happens to you and your first impulse is to resort to vandalism, or ask someone to do it in your place. Any more vandal attacks of the wikequalists will only be linked to you and will further damage your case, possibly beyond repair, so whatever retaliation you and your friends got planned, I advice you not to resort to vandalism, any of you. 21:40, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Hold on a Sec
Don't talk to the admins. Good news, I wasn't blocked or at least I think that. It's just wierd that every time I get on the IRC, it says that my connection has been lost. Anyways, just don't talk to the admins about me yet. I now have a ton of evidence for why I think some admins are indeed biased. I still know I did some bad things and I deserved to be blocked, but your partners aren't as nice as you think they are. I have a plan that will make you see the real problems on Avatar wiki. Anyway, just don't speak to your fellow admins about me yet. I want everything to cool down.Omar067 23:08, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Note that my message above is not intended to disrespect you. I really do think my actions deserve a block, but I still think I got blocked because I was fighting for a good cause. I really do have a plan and a more experienced user is helping me with it. I think he's going to contact you, but I don't exactly know when, but he is far from being a vandal. Why would I be disrespecting you though. You're my only shot in getting out this mess.Omar067 23:25, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Forget everything that was said.Omar067 02:09, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why? Happened and what are you planning to do? 05:25, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not planning anything. The Wikequalists are finished. 888 made me drop the group yesterday on IRC after lots of users and admins disrespected me. It seems like me getting on IRC is like Osama Bin Laden on trial. I didn't attack anyone on the IRC yesterday. All I did was take their crap. I thought 888 and Thailog were good admins. Well you siad they were. Well they probably are, but not on IRC. I gave up everything I believed in and suffered against insults that I thought an admin was supposed to stop. Well they're admins, what can you do? Now that I gave up the group, 888 said I might have a chance to get unblocked. If I'm not unblocked and I did all this stuff for nothing....

My feelings really got hurt yesterday. I'm ticked off.--Omar067 16:19, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I still don't really know what happened, so I'll not say anything about that, but I will say this: IRC and the wiki are two different things. There is much more allowed on IRC than on the wiki -word and language wise. If you truly just took the hard words at your address, then that's really admirable of you. Good that you dropped the wikequalists, as that would really have gotten you nowhere. As you getting crap from users, well, that will take time. They will eventually move on, but considering the magnitude of disruption you caused -almost every user that was active over the past month knows your name- it will take a while for that to be forgotten. All I can advice to you is to keep hanging in there. Show them that those days of vandalism etc are behind you. Btw, you don't need to give up everything you believe in. You don't need to change who you are, but you just need to know what can and cannot be said on the wiki/internet. No one truly is on the wiki as they are in real life. Some are politer, some are ruder. So don't change yourself, but rather find the balance you need on the internet :-) 16:41, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Hey can you join http://nickfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Chat   ? Thanks, ZUKO! Whaz Hrer 16:40, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Talk sometime?
Hello, Lady Lostris. This is BlackMonkey. I just want to talk to you on chat sometime, (this wiki's chat, my wiki's chat, IRC) and discuss what I was talking to you, Omar, and Zuko about today. I am and was pressured with all three people watching because I trust some of you more than others and know that some are on different sides. I just need to clear some things up about my plan with Omar and Zuko's group with you and ask for advice on how I should pull what I want off because I know I can trust you more than the other admins. Maybe sometime tomorrow, as I need to catch up with my homework the rest of the day. Just letting you know. 20:32, June 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, I will not be around all day of course, but if you are on or see me on, feel free to drop me a message. 20:37, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

A sincere plea
Can I talk with you on The Adventures of Omar wiki chat, please. I want to talk about my block for one last time.Omar067 16:05, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't have time now, but I'll see whether or not I can drop by later. 18:14, August 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just message me whenever you feel like it. Your my last hope.Omar067 18:36, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry I did not check in today. I will make time for this tomorrow. 23:41, August 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I may not be able to chat tomorrow. Hopefully I will be able to talk with you, but tomorrow I'm getting supplies and other things for school. I just hope you will still consider talking with me whenever I can get on.Omar067 04:20, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, just message me when you do have time then :-) 07:03, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm now available. I'll be waiting on my wiki's chat.Omar067 20:10, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * What did I say wrong. If I offended you I didn't mean to. It was not my intention.Omar067 21:22, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Cool place you got here
I didn't know you had your own wiki Lady. I think its pretty neat. I have my own wiki as well. Anyway, I just stopped by to say a friendly hello. Lemon☆Star 00:42, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Heya Tris! Thought I'd come back and check this place out and i must say *claps* Classy work you got here tris! I'll be on often though it's ummmm round midnight for ya, I'll be editing soooooo. You know where ta find me!

Oh didja get my message about you slackering on your fanon? And W00t! Sephy get's a chapter. Anywho talk at ya later!

Count the stars - Shao 19:35, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Stalker alert. It's quite apparent then that you ignored the request not to read anything. But I just send the latest chapter to ARG -the second edit- so hopefully, I can publish it soon. It's another long one (over the 10K words) to make up for the long time without a chapter -though I had to cut it in two as the original plan was getting to long. Sadly, due to that, it is an action low chapter. Oh well. 20:13, September 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Request not to read anything? What in the belgian hell are talking about Tris? You have officially confuzzled me. Exlpain? CUZ I NEVER GOT A REQUEST NOT TO READ ANYTHING?
 * Count the stars - Shao 15:57, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Never mind, it was just something I put up on a page that I haven't posted on the wiki yet. 09:16, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that
My bad, I'll stop the social conversations. Silver☆Star 23:04, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hope You're Happy
"Your attempt in the forum discussion for Omar is not very well appreciated. You, using your username here, gave up the attempt / said "end the discussion."

''Then as an anonymous user you replied - stating as if you were someone else, to 'think about this again.' Now, you admitted afterward you were Sshalwani, so that's your saving grace here. But see that you don't try to manipulate things by using two different methods again please. Thank you."''- Vulmen

"You know, I acrually can warn ou about this. Because yes, actually you are disrupting the balance, believe it or not. And you have done more then enough damage. I do not know what you plan on achieving, like unblocking Omar will be the end of your problems. You continue, and yes you most certainly are done. You were warned way too much, now I can and I most certainly will go to an admin. I will tell you that in my opinion, you should hav stayed banned from the IRC, as you are just taking advantage of the admins now. Good day to you."-Ice Land
 * "You lost my patience when you decided to just assume that we were wrong before you even saw any evidence. Great job, you believe my integrity is compromised (a conclusion that has so far been rejected on that other forum you refer to) because I say something sarcastic or something less than "omg I completely agree with you". Why don't people start judging others by their actual actions, that thing that actually defines integrity, for a change? I have no idea what I did to deserve your constant dogging of our actions: from start to finish, I have heard nothing but opposition to every one of our actions for weeks. As far as you're concerned, I can do nothing right, and that bias from you has made you make these ridiculous assumptions.

"Edit: And you know what? Here's one admission that I was wrong: I was wrong to even consider unblocking Omar in the first place, and I made this mistake not once, but twice. I disagreed with Vulmen's judgement and the judgement of most others (including most admins) after three blocks and I gave him another chance. I regret it immensely. I have been far too understanding and permissive in the past in the interests of encouraging participation, and now I'm cynical because it has only ever backfired on me. So excuse me if I feel angry and offended by your attempts to paint this as some kind of revenge exercise. I didn't have to put myself through this."-888th
 * "It's always been "one very last chance" for the past six times. I do agree that it will be up to the community to decide on this, imo, pointless unblock, but I doubt it will happen after Omar's recent break of policy anyway, much less everything else. And MateyY; please don't break into a sensationalized and irrelevant sob story. We do not give or remove blocks due to personal problems, and it'd do well for you to remember that... People get blocked because of their actions, and Omar was no different."
 * "And there's one other thing I don't get; how in heck do you actually know all this is true? You don't know Omar and his actual personality in real life just like the rest of us, and you would be foolish if you really thought that on the Internet, especially with what has happened with said user and his history. This is a forum based on hard evidence, and word-of-mouth stories won't change the fact that you are defending a user without any logical basis.
 * "Oh, and about that other point, if "all [Omar] wants to do" is write his fanon, then exactly why does he have three contributions to it over an entire bucketload of others? He was also very zealous in a forum that had nothing to do with him, where he angrily ranted about admins dodging punishments unfairly, don't you recall? And after his activity on those little hit and run wikis, of which you also contributed to... Don't you dare say that he is not only innocent in all of this, but that he only wanted to write his fanon this whole time. He came back for much more than simple fanon writing, and held a few particular grudges that he just couldn't repress."

"And guess what else? Wasn't all of your evidence collected on IRC, and not the wiki? And wasn't it compiled on Suzon's notebook wiki? Don't give us any of that bullshit, MateyY, when your own forum completely disproves the legitimacy of that statement. Knowledge is knowledge, no matter where you try to hide it".-Kettle

Okay, I hope that you are happy with the direction that wiki is moving in now that Omar the terrorist is gone. By the way, you never kept your promise. You didn't talk to the other admins. Plus you didn't eliminate indefinite blocks from the wiki. I've spent months suffering because I can't get on the wikia. Something you will never ever experience Bureaucrat Lostris, but I bet you don't care because it's not you right? You know what, in all my time on wikia, I've found out how the Avatar wiki works. You guys the admins, have the majority of people on your side. To them, you guys are completely innocent and immune to fault. The person that is favored by the majority has unimaginable power. On wikia, it's all about numbers. Popularity. In order to gain power on the Avatar wiki, you must be the person with power. You must mimic them. You must agree with them. The wiki is full with people who relate to those descriptions. Those people will never change their mind. No matter if they think the person may change. All they want to do is prove a point. My situation was very unfair. I didn't have a single chance of getting unblocked. Why, because the wiki is full of people who meet the description above. Also, you and your friends were the ones who judged me. You are right Lostris, you won, and I lost. but it's not my fault. It's just the law of the Avatar wiki. Now that you are a king of the wiki I'll give you a little bit of advice.

"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice."Omar067 (talk) 03:58, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Don't be too disgusted with the post above. I just needed a shoulder to cry on.Omar067 (talk) 04:58, November 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I am not disgusted with you message, I am, however, sad with the tone of it and the fact that you still put all the blame with the admins and single out users as if everything was black/white.


 * I never broke any promises with you. I never promised that I would get you unblocked as that decision is not mine to make alone. I never promised that I would "outlaw" a permanent block. I said that I am against such blocks, I never said that I could make it policy that it shouldn't be used again, as again, that's not my decision to make alone. A block is not a punishment. A block is a measure to protect the wiki from harm and disruption. Can you honestly say that you were not disrupting the wiki before?


 * You are once again completely rigid in your views on how the wiki works and on how the administrators are chosen. "On wikia, it's all about numbers. Popularity. In order to gain power on the Avatar wiki, you must be the person with power. You must mimic them. You must agree with them." That is wrong, and if you even cared to look into the archives and read up on things, you would know that. But since you'll never do that, I'll give you a personal example:
 * When I was still a rollback, I was very active on the War Room forums. As a result, I got into an enormous debate where I opposed the view of 888 and Thailog about using sentence case instead of title case. The debate went on for days, and every response became more heated. I never joined them in their opinion and then in the end, also voted against them. And chocker, later, I was still voted in /by the community as a whole/ to be an administrator.


 * You see, Omar, to have anything on the wiki, it are not the administrators you have to please, it is the community itself. The administrators are just seven people, the active community is with thirty or something. You really think that 7 outweighs 30? You are right that there is a preferred behavior on the wiki: constructive editing, being friendly toward others, be reasonable, and try to not disrupt community cohesion. But here is the thing: disagreeing with someone is not the same as disrupting the community. I challenge people's views and arguments all the time and I have done so from the beginning (so even when I did not have any rights). The difference is that I attacked their arguments and reasonings behind something, never did I attack them personally. I may have made a sarcastic comment about something that they could've taken as a personal attack, but that was never my intent. So when I have entered a debate, have said what I want to say, and the community still votes against my ideas, then is the time that you as a user has to bow your head to the community consensus and follow it. If you don't, /then/ you are disrupting the cohesion.


 * So don't you see? You don't need to please the administrators and always keep blaming those seven users for everything that you don't like on the wiki and for everything that happened to you is incredibly shortsighted and egocentric. If you would go back to the message threads on your wall, you would see that it were definitely not the administrators alone who asked you to stop doing certain things, there are threads that aren't even started by an administrator. Community cohesion is about getting along with each other, and when you don't get along with a certain user, try to avoid them, and if you can't, then just act civil. So what they you don't mean any of it, so what if you curse the living daylights out of them in front of your computer? It doesn't matter as long as you put on the civil and courteous act on the wiki (or the internet as a whole). You can always disagree with people, that's your fullest right, but you cannot always keep antagonizing them and making the atmosphere tense every time. When you disagree, you can do that in a friendly manner or on a manner that will disrupt everything. Guess which one is preferred, but which one you never really seemed to follow?
 * And here the circles completes itself for you: You come on the wiki, thinking that you are not allowed to disagree with anyone, that you are restricted in your movements and that people have it in for you. You start off with such a negative attitude toward the others, that the moment someone indeed disagrees with you one something, you immediately are the "self-fulfilling prophesy" about that all and get all defensive as you "knew that that would all happen". Then you become more defensive aggressive, forcing the administrators to intervene and mediate, which again angers you by default just by the mere fact that they are administrators. And so the circle is round and keeps spiraling downwards, and along the way, there is only one though that you really have and really keep alive: "It's all the administrators fault. They're too blame. They're all bad, and they should be gone. They're mad with power. They never get blamed for anything. etc. etc."


 * And if you are thinking that what I just is not true, then let me copy/paste the following to prove that you would be lying if you said so:
 * "you and your friends were the ones who judged me. You are right Lostris, you won, and I lost. but it's not my fault. It's just the law of the Avatar wiki. Now that you are a king of the wiki I'll give you a little bit of advice. "The voice of the majority is no proof of justice.""


 * Now, let's break that down to see what is completely wrong with that statement:
 * 1. "you and your friends were the ones who judged me."
 * Wrong, we did not. In fact, if you are referring to the other administrators when you're saying "my friends", then you're even more wrong than I'm thinking, as the administrators didn't see eye-to-eye with the action to take on you -evidenced with how 888 went against Vulmen's opinion. There are other talks, but you already should know this as I have told you that all before, but as I said above, you forget all that conveniently in favor of you admin-hate thoughts.


 * 2. "You are right Lostris, you won, and I lost."
 * Do you honestly think that any of us enjoyed that entire situation? Do you honestly think that any of us enjoy blocking users? Do you really think that? Cause if you do, then you really have an incredibly bad perception and do not get at all what the administrators on the Avatar Wiki are about. We do not enjoy blocking people, and the fact that you were getting so many chances is proof of that. I did not win anything when you were blocked. No one liked that entire situation, but everyone wanted peace and quiet again, and you constantly antagonizing the administrators, constantly have it out for them, that was not peace and quiet. That was a sickening atmosphere that was negative for the entire community. I nearly left because of that attitude as I found it completely undeserved, and Vulmen even left because of that months later. A lot of people lost their joy in the wiki because of that situation. So you call that winning?


 * 3. "but it's not my fault."
 * Don't play the innocent boy with me, Omar. I don't want to hear another "but I didn't do anything" rant, as you know everything in that rant would be a lie. You cannot -even though you so persistently try- put all the blame on the administrators, especially not since they never wanted any of this to happen.


 * 4. "It's just the law of the Avatar wiki."
 * Wrong again. We have policies on the Avatar Wiki, and guess what? They're community made. If you didn't like something, you could always challenge it on a forum and make your case to change it with logical, reasonable, and sensible arguments. Rating about "administrators are bullies" and "he's mean, cause he said that I was a 'thick head' " while completely ignoring or minimizing the context and your own part in the situation is not logical, reasonable, and sensible. So the Avatar Wiki is ruled by the community, not the administrators. Only recently has that been proven again, when all the administrators except one were against something and that one thing still happened cause the majority of the community was in favor of it.


 * 5. "Now that you are a king of the wiki"
 * I've said it many a times already, both in this thread as in others, so I hope that by now you can see for yourself what is wrong with that statement. If you can't, the tip is that the fault lies with the word "king" (and no, I don't mean that it should be "queen")


 * 6. "I'll give you a little bit of advice. "The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." "
 * You really believe that I need that piece of advice? Let me copy/paste part of an answer I gave on my bureaucrat election:
 * "Part of a bureaucrat's "job" is to deal with said situations, and the perception of the community on something that is so-called a policy violation isn't always the right perception or in the line of the nature of said policy."
 * So thank you, but I already know what you are trying to say. And in any case, the funny thing about "justice" is that it cannot be defined. It is personal. Don't believe me? Then try it. Define justice for me, but make it so that it is a definition that encompasses everyone. Make it so that it is a definition that is global and is a good one for everyone. Little piece of advice when you're trying to do that: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". (no, I'm not comparing you to a terrorist, I am just offering you that bit of wisdom to point out that the world is not as black on white as you make it out to be. The wiki, for that matter, is not "you against the rest", it is not "I'm right, they're wrong". Everything has two sides.)


 * This is just my piece of wisdom for you. What you do with it is up to you. 07:48, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

1. Let me say this again. You and your friends are the ones who judged me. It was only the seven of your friends and nobody else. When that forum was made to get me unblocked, you guys threatened the users who had opposite views. One of them was even blocked for one negative word. "Freaking" out of all words to get blocked for.

2. I don't think there is anything wrong with my perception, judging by how you guys laughed when I was blocked again. Gave cocky remarks, and let the community say bad stuff about me and my friends, just because you guys were angry. I don't have anything to go by to prove that any of you didn't enjoy my block. And for Vulmen's step down from position. I could really careless because he didn't have any remorse for any of my blocks. I call that situation winning.

3. Yeah, it is not my fault that I was blocked. You guys had a big pulling factor because if you wouldn't have uttered sarcastic and demotivating comments, then I wouldn't have even accepted the email. I have nothing more to say to defend myself than what I have already said.

4. The Avatar wiki is ruled by seven administrators, who are viewed as the purest users on the wiki by others. The policies maybe made by the community, but you seven people enforce them. Along with your 30 other pets. What ever you agree with, 90 percent of the time the community agrees with it too. The ones who have opposing views are the ones who get mocked on the IRC. And that is okay.

5. From what I've been through I will always view you guys as kings. The ones who have the majority on their side.

6. "Part of a bureaucrat's "job" is to deal with said situations, and the perception of the community on something that is so-called a policy violation isn't always the right perception or in the line of the nature of said policy."

You may speak the words but the future will only tell if you mean them.

7.You guys blocked me and demotivated my friends. That's unforgivable and saddening. I'm am blocked forever. This is the end. You're right, everything has two sides, but the other side out weighed the other.

8. There is no absolute global definition for justice, but that doesn't stop people from forcing their view of justice on others like you guys have. All I wanted was to make the Avatar wiki a place without losers. Where everybody can be winners and equal. A place without status quo controlling everything. I was doomed to fail from the start. I'll never be accepted back into the wiki without being demonized and restrained by laws not ever given to others. Maybe everything that has happened was for the best. I know it has made me stronger. Thanks for listening anyway. was for the best Omar067 (talk) 03:47, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1. You are so rigid in your views of how things work, you know that? Technically, yes, only administrators have the ability to block people, but you are so wrong in the fact that thinking that blocks just happen without a second thought or that it is the first mode of action taken by administrators. I find it appalling and insulting that you still think that and refuse to listen to any reasoning behind it. As long as you keep blaming everything on "the administrators" and "you seven friends", you will never get what wikia is about and you will never be able to become a constructive part of any community.
 * Administrators are the ones that judge people, that is correct, but they are not the only ones that judge people. I'll give you a small example for that: Bos's admin rights removal. Let's say that neither of the administrators would've wanted to remove his rights, he still would've lost him as his actions were made public and what he did was something no admin should've ever done, so if the administrators (in this case the bureaucrats) wouldn't have started the forum to remove his rights, can you honestly say that no one would've done so? No, you can't, as you would likely started the forum. Some goes for blocking. Anyone can contest a block made by an administrator. Not to long ago, Thailog and I contested the block PSU made and the user got unblocked. So please, open your eyes and stop blaming the administrators to be the root of all evil on the wiki as you couldn't be more wrong. The wiki is community governed. The administrators are just seven users with some extra rights that have the ability and even the obligation to block if the entire community asks for it (cause don't forget, your conflict was not only with the administrators. A large part of the community asked you to stop, but you ignored everyone.)


 * 2. "I don't think there is anything wrong with my perception, judging by how you guys laughed when I was blocked again." <-- Wrong, no one laughed. Yet again, you have made the administrators more evil in your mind than they all are. Stop that.
 * Get over yourself, will you? We did not let the community say bad things about you and your friends, and we weren't angry. Speaking for myself: I was completely sick of it. I hated the way it all happened, and I hated the way how the atmosphere in the community was ruined because of all that. You really need to step off your righteous horse and look at the facts. For months, you targeted the administrators and the rest of the community, you even made a fanon to slander some users. That should all be accepted, but one sarcastic or ironic remark and oh no, you're the innocent victim? Seriously, get real.
 * "I don't have anything to go by to prove that any of you didn't enjoy my block." Ah, interesting. So, care to share your evidence that you have that proves that we do all enjoy the fact that you are blocked? Cause the lack of evidence seems to be the reason why you can't believe that we don't enjoy it, so that must mean that you have clear and true evidence that we do, so I like to see it.
 * "I could really careless because he didn't have any remorse for any of my blocks. I call that situation winning." And then you wonder why you aren't viewed as a constructive community member who has the intention to get along with people without antagonizing everyone... Can you see why, or do I need to explain it again.


 * 3. Of course, the ever innocent Omar, the poor victim who was blocked without any reason, the perfect user who did nothing wrong. You were bullied every step of the way and no one reached out to you and attempted civil conversation with you. The moment we saw you, we immediately got all angry and decided that we didn't like you and that you should be blocked. Yes, you're right, that's totally what happened.
 * And in case you don't get it: that what a sarcastic comment as I am sick of seeing you place all the blame with others and acting like you were the saint in all this who did nothing wrong. So again, get a bit of a more realistic view. Nothing is all black and white, and you are definitely not the white in this story.


 * 4. "The Avatar wiki is ruled by seven administrators, who are viewed as the purest users on the wiki by others." Wrong.
 * "The policies maybe made by the community, but you seven people enforce them." Wrong.
 * "Along with your 30 other pets." Wrong.
 * "What ever you agree with, 90 percent of the time the community agrees with it too." Wrong.
 * "The ones who have opposing views are the ones who get mocked on the IRC." Wrong.
 * "And that is okay." Wrong.
 * Do you want me to explain this all again why you have a 0/6 on your statements or can I be done with saying "read the previous messages and please stop thinking so rigidly about the administrators"?


 * 5. "From what I've been through I will always view you guys as kings. The ones who have the majority on their side." That is your choice and your fault, not ours. I find it funny that you are the one who insists on having the wrong view, who insists on maintain something that every administrator tries to get out of the minds of others, and that you then have the audacity to blame those administrators for your wrong way of seeing all things, when they don't share that same vision.


 * 6. The truth is that I've always done that already. If the community did something that I didn't like, I have already always gone against it. The difference between you and I was that I did so on a civil way and through the War Room as opposed to antagonizing the entire community, putting everyone on the fence, and then ignoring everything that others said to you.
 * But it really doesn't matter what you do. For you, the "administrators are evil" is written in stone and no matter what we do, we will never be able to change your perception on that. That's your choice to continue like that, not ours.


 * 7. Matey's rollback rights were removed because he violated the rollback conduct himself. Please don't get all hight and mighty and say that it was a petty revenge act. It is obvious from the vandalism and the demotion forum that you and your friends roll that way, but please don't drag everyone down to that level as that is not how the vast majority on the wiki rolls, especially not 888 and Vulmen, the ones who removed Matey's rollback rights.
 * I am right that everything has two sides, but you clearly refuse to look at the other sides, and if you do, you refuse to look at it objectively, and that is what is unforgivable and saddening here. You are so rooted in the fact that you are right about everything, that you have completely closed yourself off for any opinion that might even be slightly different that your "pure vision".


 * 8. Ah, now you're talking, though I am absolutely sure that you don't even know that you are doing the exact same thing that you are now blaming others to do. You do realize as well -I hope- that you are talking about a Utopia, right? That perfect place you speak off does not exist anywhere on the planet, as you yourself with your own views already prevent that from happening. You wanted to make a place that does not promote a hierarchy, that only has one in name (as administrators are just needed to keep the wiki working), a place that would move further away from your goal. You are the one that is dead set on viewing the administrators as kings, not the administrators themselves. The "institutions" of the wiki are fine as they are. What needed to change was the perception of people like yourself, but instead of showing the courage to look inside yourself and think that just maybe you had the wrong pov, you took the easy road out and blamed everyone else. That's your doing, not ours, so please stop blaming us for something that we didn't do. 07:38, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

You know what I find funny. I find it funny that you blame me for everything got damn thing that a user says bad about an admin. I find it funny that MateyY still hasn't got his rights back after what he has done after the forum. I find it funny that a users was block because he said," freaks" in a damn forum. He was blocked because he wanted to protect me. I find it funny that you think I'm always wrong and that you think the admins handled the problems I had with them perfectly. You say I'm rigid on how things work, but for months, you guys have said I was wrong for everything, and that you guys were always right. You say that I always say I'm innocent but you guys always say that you are innocent as well. When you people do something wrong, you guys don't get blocked. When you guys say somethings that goes over the line, you don't get a warning. It's all considered okay because you guys say that you are human too. Or you guys would say that this person has done so much for the community that he or she should be pardoned.

2. I can recall many smart remarks about my block from you guys. When I tried to protest my block on irc, I clearly remember you guys saying stuff about I'm not wriggling my way out of this."Ha Ha, we got you," cheering about the thread that you found. I can honestly say that I'm not lying. I just wished I was able to paste it. There was a thread on one person's page that I dislike a lot. On that thread was bad stuff written about me. About your conspiracy theory. You, and all of the others demonized me. You let others demonize. The only person that tried to stop people from stereotyping me was MateyY. But he was not able to stop them. And who knows what else was said. I've also heard that MateyY was attacked on IRC by users who are considered good users. Who are you to consider me as not constructive to the community? I created pages. I participated in forums. I did not vandalize the wiki for my own enjoyment. If you think it is okay to view me as nonconstructive, it should be okay for me to say that you guys are power abusers.

3. "The ones who have opposing views are the ones who get mocked on the IRC." True because I have seen it and I've experienced it. I've seen other people experience it.

"And that is okay."

You said it was okay. You are the person who said it is a place where people vent. A place where people can say what ever you want. I can remember when I told you that I was humiliated on IRC by your friends and your community. You said it was understandable.

4. I have every damn right to view you as I view you. None of you have apologized for any damn thing. None of you have have admitted to being wrong for anything having to do with me. You were always right. You relish in the fact that the community has a positive view on you and not me.

5.MateyY's rollback rights were removed because he wanted to report something that he thought was wrong. I can remember when MateyY was on your side. When he had the same view you now have on me. He was hurt because what you guys said. You had a chance stop that forum from being made, but you stuck to your,"I've done nothing wrong ways." You had the opportunity to stop that forum, but why didn't you do that? You don't have a single damn ounce of evidence to prove that MateyY knew he was doing something wrong. You are the one who has a rigid view of his motive. You will never admit it, but you and your friends were the cause of the damn forum in the first place. Because you wanted to vent, but that is okay for you because you are human. Because you can say what ever you want on IRC. I'm surprised that he still does not have his rights back because he has already began to do good things for the community after his right were taken. He said that you have biased views so maybe that is a reason. Maybe because he protected me.

6. I will stop viewing you as kings when I see you guys apologize for things on the social side of the wiki. I will stop viewing you as kings when you people stop saying whatever mean thing you want to say. I will stop viewing you as kings when admins like thailog stop acting like they are smarter than everyone else. I will stop viewing you as kings when you stop banning who ever the hell you want from IRC. When you ban your friends from IRC who sometimes say more messed up stuff than the people who are banned.

7."he "institutions" of the wiki are fine as they are. What needed to change was the perception of people like yourself, but instead of showing the courage to look inside yourself and think that just maybe you had the wrong pov, you took the easy road out and blamed everyone else."

Who are you to judge me and declare that everyone who thought there was a problem in the community are the ones who need to change? Every step of the damn way you guys have got what you wanted. Every step of the way each and every one of you have said I need to change but the others don't. You've gotten everything you wanted.!!! I'm suffering, you are doing fine. To you and your friends that's the way it should be. Maybe you always didn't have the right point of view either. My hate stems from the fact that the seven you always had control of my fate and that you never apologized for anything. Tell me how can we both get what we want, or explain to me why it is okay for me to suffer and for you and your friends to flourish. If there is a way fix this, I want to find out what it is. By the way, even if I did submit to your views in this matter it would have hollow results. What would I obtain?--Omar067 (talk) 05:22, November 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1.Oh boy, you really don't get it, do you? You really think you are the sad litte victimized, blameless user. Pity, I could've worked with someone who at least acknowledges that he is for a large part to blame. Someone who believes he has done nothing wrong is completely useless to me.
 * And get your damn facts straight: MateyY hasn't gotten his rights back because he has basically dropped inactive, thus widely showcasing that he doesn't need the rollback tool, and before that, he didn't meet the criteria to become a rollback. Please get off your high and mighty horse again that makes you think that he hasn't gotten them back as a petty revenge act. You are wrong again, and I am getting tired of always having to tell you that.
 * The person who was blocked was not blocked for saying "freaks", please, don't be so ignorant about the entire thing. He was blocked for sockpuppetry, a well known blockable offense, so don't start twisting the reasoning around.


 * I have never said that I think that the administrators handles it perfectly, but the administrators handled it perfectly within the limits of the policy. As I said before, I wouldn't have blocked you permanently as that isn't my style, but it isn't against policy or any other conduct to block you permanently. If you would've pulled all the crap that you did on any other wiki you would've been blocked way before we did, so please stop your victimized whining about how unjust the entire situation was. Administrators are there to protect the wiki and the community, you were disrupting both with how you were acting. Even if you strongly believed that you were % right in your reasoning for doing so, the way you did it was still wrong and the administrators and the rest of the community had to act upon that.


 * Yes, you are rigid in your way of thinking as your end conclusion is still "the administrators are kings that rule with an iron hand". Get over that instead of obsession about something that couldn't be further away from the truth. Repeating something a hundred fold does not make it true.
 * We never said that we were always right, though in your case, we were. You were wrongfully disrupting the community and vandalizing the wiki, that is wrong, that had to be stopped as you were refusing any form of reasoning that was attempted before you were blocked, so again, stop playing innocent here.


 * You're right, when an administrator does something wrong, changes are small that the person will get blocked. A block is not meant as a punishment, but as a protective measure, so when an administrator does something wrong, the other will look into the situation and see if the offense was grave enough for said person to lose his/her rights over. Usually, that already takes care of the problem as most offenses by an administrator are done via their administrator rights. However, if that's not enough, a block can still follow. That being said, get off your high and might horse again in your set in stone opinion that administrators never gets any punishment. That opinion of yours is wrong and I am getting very tired trying to get that through your head.


 * If you are referring to Thailog telling you have a "thick head" whens saying "something that goes over the line", then I have no choice but to laugh at that, remind you that he only said it after he tried to reason with you numerous times and that yo stubbornly blew him off, hence him saying "thick head" as a reference to your stubbornness, which given the situation was perfectly acceptable.


 * You really haven't read anything of what I've been saying in this entire ordeal, have you? Cause you're starting to repeat everything again that you've already said before and that has already been refuted thoroughly, but unsurprisingly, you're conveniently ignoring your own part in the entire story and blaming it all and the others.


 * 2. You know, I'm really starting to wonder why I'm still taking time to reply to this all when it is clearly such a waste of my time. You don't listen. You play innocent on all accounts. You have no respect for context and you clearly don't value it at all. So yeah... this is useless to reply to, you don't get it or you don't want to get it, thus I might as well be talking to a wall.
 * Ah yes, you "heard" things, and the moment that those things are supposedly against you, then they must be true, right? You know, I would've taken any of this serious if I wouldn't have heard it like 10 times before, and if I wouldn't have seen the forum of "incriminating evidence", cause if that is the standards that you guys have to say that someone is being mean, insulting, unworthy, or whatever, then I can just laugh at that and think that you both really have no idea how the world works and what is real.


 * Being a constructive member of a community is more than creating pages. It is also about how you interact with the rest of the community. You don't gave to be a social butterfly, but you do have to refrain from disrupting behavior, something you failed flagrantly on. And by disruptive behavior, I do not mean "disagreeing with the administrators" (just saying that before you pull that card -again), I mean showcasing a total disregard to community consensus, showing no form of respect for others what so ever, completely ignoring everything that you've said, stubbornly refusing to engage in reasonable debates about an opinion, refraining from edit wars, etc etc.
 * The difference between your view and mine and why mine is considered to be okay is because I have the real evidence to back it up, your entire wall and contributions are splattered with it, even on an other wiki. You on the other hand have some random transcripts from IRC that you guys think is evidence but that everyone finds laughable. You see the difference?


 * 3. Seriously, you guys need to understand that people talk and interact with each other. Where do they talk on Avatar Wiki? The IRC. What do they talk about? Either their life or a common ground, namely the wiki. When something is bothering them on the wiki, chances are good that they will vent about it on IRC, just like people irl vent to their friend. But again, I would've taken this a lot more serious if I wouldn't have seen the "accusations" of what you guys call "rude and mocking behavior".


 * I stand by my opinion that it is understandable, but you or your friends will never get that as you all have no idea what a context is or now what to do with it. You all view acts like they are completely unrelated to each other, but that is not true. But countless attempts to educate you all on that regard have failed miserably and I for one am done trying.


 * 4. None of us have anything to apologize for. I'm more than willing to say that I am sorry for how things went down, but I do not take any blame for that. As I said on the laughable forum of you guys: I have done nothing wrong imo, so why would I apologize to people who do less than deserve it?
 * I relish in nothing and I find it laughable that you think that I do anything to be put in a good light by the community. If you would bother to actually look at my track record, you'll see that I never bothered to comment, that I hardly ever bother to talk in main on IRC. Why? I don't care. I don't care about the socialization on the wiki. I do my own thing and that's it. If you want to give a whole other spin to all that, be my guest, but then don't you dare pose that as being the truth, cause it is not, and I am tired of always having to tell you that your statements are loose cannons that have no foundation in anything and are just blown out of proportion thoughts of your own.


 * 5. MateyY's rollback rights were removed because he violated the rollback conduct, it's as simple as that. If you want to spin it the other way around again, sure, be my guest, but don't expect it to be considered as the truth cause it is not, but if you prefer to keep living in you "black and white, Omar is completely right" world, then I clearly can't stop you, but spirits know that I've tried. (and please, do us both a favor and do not switch this back to your old mantra of "no, it's 'the admins are always right' ", cause I'm sick of hearing such a wrongful statement being repeated with such thinking that it's the truth.)


 * Are you now completely forgetting and/or ignoring that you weren't blocked out of the blue? That many a thread went on before that? Threads on which you refused to e anything less than antagonizing? You refused to listen to anything, especially when whatever was being said come from an administrator or rollback. So excuse me for not wooing over your sad sob-story here when you keep ignoring and twisting the reality of how it all went down.
 * I had a chance to stop that forum from being made? By doing what? Blatantly lying and rolling over like a puppy to some ego-bruised boys? I did nothing wrong. MateyY lost in a debate against me, he couldn't take that and then took everything I ever said about that as a personal attack instead of what it really was: an attack on his arguments, which is perfectly okay when you're having a discussion (in fact, it's what you're supposed to do, but I guess that memo was lost on you guys). So I should've apologized for that? If you're still waiting on that, I suggest you get over it as it is never going to happen. PSU may have rolled over and caved under the public pressure you guys put on him, but as long as I've done nothing wrong, I'm not going to apologize for some phantom offense you guys put on my address.
 * MateyY deliberately obscured things with coding... yes, that was by accident, I'm sorry I didn't see that before.
 * Ah yes, sure we were. It had nothing to do with bruised little egos but all with us big, bad admins. Oh look, a unicorn! (yes, this is sarcasm and yes, I am mocking your statement. Why? I have heard it before, I have sensibly refuted it before. Then I heard it again, and sensibly refuted it again, but that obviously didn't work, so let's try sarcasm. I'm done repeating myself in case you didn't get that memo either.)


 * You don't realize that you could've done the same thing right? Vent within the limits of policy? But you didn't do that, no, you went on to vandalize and otherwise wrongfully publicly disrupt the community. But you still don't see the difference, do you?
 * And of course MateyY would say that. MateyY's ego is thoroughly bruised that he undoubtedly has a very unbiased opinion, you're right (for clarity again, this is sarcasm mixed with irony, and perhaps a little attempt to reverse psychology, but I don't expect it to work, so don't worry.)
 * I find it funny that you have no trouble believing everything Matey says, but you denounce everything else. I wonder why. Ah, probably because Matey is the voice of reason and truth in all this.


 * 6. I have no idea what you want us to apologize for. An apology is given when you've done something wrong. And there is the core key of an apology for us missing. We have nothing to apologize for, so why would we? Just to caress your egos? No thank you.
 * Fine, you view us as whatever you want to, but please note that I'm female, so that would be Queen Lostris then, not King.


 * Hmm, so if I get this right, you'll stop viewing us as such when Thailog stops acting that he's smart? Okay, that's already done as he was never acting. When we stop banning whomever we want from IRC. Also done, we never did that. Ban out friends when they disrupt IRC as well. Done as well, though they usually just listen when we ask to stop it (as we always ask before banning anyone). So I guess your criteria have been met, I'm glad that you finally decided to move away from that wrongful view of the administrators, thank you.


 * 7. Again, for fuck's sake, read what has been written! Yes, I'm losing my patience of constantly having to repeat myself! You might have been right in your views, there were others that shared them, but where you were wrong is in the way you went about forcing your views on the community. Instead of engaging in constructive dialogue and whatnot, you resorted to vandalism, antagonism, and all-round disruption of the community. If you would've attempted a civil dialogue, things might've been different, but you ignored all that and now play innocent and the all-righteous. Get over that as you have no right to think that in this situation when you are ignoring everything that you have done and just keep the focus on what you think others did wrong. That is a very narrow-minded way of seeing everything and leaves no room what so ever for a mediating or whatever.
 * So you really don't get, seriously. You were told many times before that the road you took to "defend" yourself is a publicly known road to not be accepted on the wiki. You knew that beforehand, though you ignored it anyway and went on. Now you have the consequences of your own decision. Don't blame others for something that you willingly did.


 * I've had it with this conversation. You just want to play the innocent victim and whine about something that you view as unjust, whereas there are many others who would beg the differ. As said before, justice is indeed something subjective and the way to go about that is with sensible dialogue. If you refuse to take part of that, then that is not our fault, but yours.


 * I will not keep listening to your narrow-minded "boo-hoo, the administrator friends-club has it out for me", especially not when we (the administrators, rollbacks and regular users, many of which aren't even friends with each other have told you how wrong you are to keep that point of view).
 * If you truly think that our goal in life was to see you blocked, then you really don't know what you're talking about.


 * Ah, now you're talking: "[your] hate". You are so blinded by your own righteousness and your angry feelings and butthurt that you can no longer and will no longer see reason. You only focus on your hate, so no matter what an administrator will say or do, it can never be good as you have an unfounded and ridiculous notion that they are all gunning for you. The administrators did nothing to deserve that, but yet, you feel hurt for whatever reason and blame your lack of popularity on them and view their rights as the great evil. You can continue to think that way if you truly believe that, but please do it somewhere else than on this wiki. I am done talking with you as it is abundantly clear that you are just a hateful and raging boy at this moment who doesn't want to hear anything else except "oh Omar, you are so right". Guess what, you're not, and by raging on about it, that will not change. We have nothing to apologize for, so you will not get an apology, so stop holding your breath for that, it will make you a lot happier if you could just accept that little fact and let it go.


 * So how can we both get what we want? I just want all this crap to stop. I cannot make you see what you don't want to see, so that is where it ends for me. As for "explain to me why it is okay for me to suffer and for you and your friends to flourish": READ ALL THAT HAS EVER BEEN SAID TO YOU!
 * "If there is a way fix this, I want to find out what it is." You have already been told what that way is, but you IGNORE it.
 * "By the way, even if I did submit to your views in this matter it would have hollow results. What would I obtain?" By now, yes, it would be a hollow result, as you made it abundantly clear that you are utterly incapable of doing so. You believe with every fiber of your body that you are the victimized saint in this story and there is nothing that we can do to change that. That's a pity, but that's the path you've chosen on your own account and by your own free will. You can blame others for that all you want, but that will not change the fact that it was your conscious decision. So do what you want, you seem to know everything better anyway, so why should I keep wasting my time repeating myself over and over when you never listen to me. 09:20, November 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I read everything that you are saying and basically you are just telling me to accept everything that you have say, move on with my life. So yeah, I'm a bad person. A hate motivated person. A biased person. A liar and a terrorist. You were right and I am wrong. Now what? How am I supposed to benfit from my discussion.Omar067 (talk) 19:56, November 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * You want to know what my literal reaction to your statement just was? I facepalmed. I literally hit myself against the forehead with the palm of my hand upon reading your reply. You literally have showcased nothing more than a complete ineptitude to comprehend anything anyone has ever said to you about the situation and you have utterly missed the point of what I've all been saying. Perhaps my replies were too long each time and I took too long to say everything, so here is a brief summary:
 * Yes, you should move on with your life as in "let go of your ridiculous notion that the administrators of the Avatar Wiki have it in for you and are now delirious that you're blocked". That is a wrong statement and holding on to that for dear life will bring you nothing but a headache and more annoyance as that attitude will never get you unblocked.
 * You are not a bad person, no one ever said that you were. You are, however, a hypocritical person as you are the first to scream bloody murder when it comes to blaming someone else, but you always ignore your own part in the story. You have never once truly accepted responsibility for any of your actions. You never once admitted that you did anything wrong, not once, and that is wrong of you. Until you can truly do that, there is no place to go with this entire conversation -and when I say "do that", I do not mean give me some bullshit message like the one you just gave now, but then I mean truly mean that you accept responsibility of your actions.
 * You are not a hated motivated person. You are completely withing your rights to have your opinions, and you are completely allowed to voice them. Everyone is and everyone does. However, what you need to learn is a better way to go about that. Stubbornly repeating the same thing over and over is not voicing an opinion, that is making noise and pissing people off as you don't show any respect for them then. If you want to receive respect, you have to show it (and don't start with any crap now that you never got any respect as that would be a blatant lie). You voiced your opinions, people contradicted you. You grew more and more angry, and eventually refused any form of civil and sensible dialogue. How did you expect to get anything done when you chase people into a corner and keep antagonizing them? You blame Thailog for example -as I said above- to have said "get it through your thick head" (or something like that), screaming very loudly that it is abusive behavior and that it wrongfully went unpunished, but then you conveniently leave out that he first attempted to have a reasonable conversation with you on multiple threads and you blew him and everyone else off by stubbornly ignoring everything they had to say and keep repeating your own view. You have to understand that in a large, international community as the Avatar Wiki, no one, and then I do mean no one gets their way 100%. The entire community is made of compromises between users and to be able to make a compromise, one must be open and willing to dialogue. One must listen to the other and try to give and take here and there, so in the end, both parties win the best that they could. You never wanted that. You wanted your way or no way, and that is no attitude to have in a community as ours. Such an attitude is unworkable everywhere.
 * You are a biased person when it comes to blaming people as you automatically assume the worst and the most negative point of view when something is said by an administrator (and in a lesser extend by a rollback user).
 * You are not a liar on all accounts, but you are a liar when it comes to completely ignoring your own actions and the context the actions of others were made in. You are a liar when you conveniently forget what you have done and righteously cry out that others are "just having it out for you" and that you are the "innocent victim" in all this.
 * A terrorist... really? 888 compared you to that in an entire thread and he said that in line of an analogy. So once again, you are pulling a word out of context to aid painting the picture of "poor little, innocent Omar who did nothing wrong". I told you countless times before, and I will -spirits know why- tell you once again: you have to read everything in context.
 * "You were right and I am wrong." Get over your poor sad act, it's annoying. Sorry, but I really had it to sooth your ego here. This statement is exactly what I've been trying to educate you on, but again, you've proved it all to be a complete waste of my time.


 * As for how are you to benefit? You learn from it and you adapt a better and more workable attitude, cause if this is also the way that you go about with problems in real life, then you'll have a lot of struggles ahead of you, especially on a corporate level. 20:44, November 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll ignore your insults and move on from this useless thread. I admitted all the things you wanted me to admit and you still have room to criticize me. I'm not giving you a poor sad act. Nothing in the reply above was a poor sad act.Omar067 (talk) 02:06, November 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * And now we're back on the level of that forum of you guys: I never insulted you. What you need to learn -and your friends too for that matter- is that there is a BIG difference between insulting someone and just telling the truth as it is, even if it is the hard truth.


 * Come on, Omar, be real for once. You admitted just squad. You just said what you thought that I wanted to hear, but you meant nothing of it, nothing at all, and if you'd be honest with me and with yourself, you would acknowledge that. It is due to statements like that that your credibility is very low. You never showed to be sincere about anything. So fine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't acting, but then I do strongly advice you to take another approach in discussing with someone as "poor sad act" is how it all felt to the other party. If that was not your intent, then that's a problem with your communication that is best fixed imo. A tip to do that: do not keep repeating over and over what your point is but try to listen to reasonable counter-statements, and if you don't agree with them, try to reasonably refute them in turn. 07:16, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

Let's put the past behind us
I know you told me not to use this wiki for social purposes, but this is important. I'm sorry alright. For everything. The wikiqualist stuff, the sockpuppetry, the forum. Everything. I've changed in the time that I've been gone, and I've seen how Avatar Wiki really works. It works as a community. A real community. Okay I sound really corny, but hopefully there are not any hard feelings between us. So what do you say? Gold☆Star 01:34, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. I would really appreciate it if you told the other admins and rollbacks I'm apologizing to them too.
 * I'll pass on the message. 07:43, November 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks Lady. Gold☆Star  04:21, November 27, 2012 (UTC)

Test
Test test. 83.134.88.42 07:49, January 24, 2013 (UTC)